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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films/Archive 18 

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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Contents

REMINDER: Coordinator nominators

Just another friendly reminder that editors have until March 28th to nominate themselves as candidates for the project Coordinator positions. At the moment, we have 5 slots and 5 candidates, so it would be nice to have at least a few others in the mix so that our coordinators truly are chosen by the members and not solely by self-selection. Elections will commence on March 29th and will be open for two weeks. Thanks! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 06:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Infobox additions

There's been discussion about adding Costume Designer and Production Designer links to the film infobox. If you'd like to comment, please discuss at Template_talk:Infobox_Film#Proposed_additions_(2). Thanks. - Bobet 13:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Arguments on Critical Acclaim

I've noticed a couple of arguments here and there about critical acclaim and i've wondered if no one is familiar with | They Shoot Pictures, Don't They which by their own account collects over 1600 lists from around the World. It's not perfectly representative, but i do believe it should count into silencing arguments like the one on 'otto e mezzo' over critical acclaim. Rolling Stones lists keep getting quoted as marks of critical acclaim, but there doesn't seem —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sprafa (talk • contribs) 12:16, March 24, 2008

Ya, it's sometimes useful, but I wouldn't really quote that list by itself unless it becomes more widely known. The most useful part is the pdf document (this one, it's around 2MB though)that lists all the polls/lists/whatever that each film was on. - Bobet 14:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
You might also be interested in our proposed core list of film articles, which is largely derived from the TSPDT metalist. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 06:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

International external links on a article about a non-english film

I created {{kvikmyndir.is title}} a few days ago and it has been deleted and also removed from all articles. The biggest problem I have is that when it got reverted from the article, a lot of other edits got reverted with it. For example this one. And then I also wanted to ask, I mean, this is an Icelandic webpage and it was only on articles about Icelandic films. Sometimes there was a trailer and other information that couldn't be found on a English language site. I guess I'm just seeking a third opinion. True, I am an admin on the page, so I don't rely have a neutral point of view :) I'm just thinking, can I back links with a trailer or should I wait for the English part of the page to go live. --Steinninn 04:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I would not usually recommend creating a template for an external link when it comes to film articles. There are a handful of links that have community consensus for widespread inclusion -- IMDb, Allmovie, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, and Box Office Mojo. These links usually offer useful content outside of the encyclopedia, but we keep the links limited because Wikipedia is not a link farm. Unfortunately, there is a conflict of interest since you're partly responsible for the website that you want to add to Wikipedia. It can be seen as spam, and it looks like your template was deleted on that basis. Considering the preferred limit on external links and the fact that most people here will be wanting to read in English, can you not visit the Icelandic Wikipedia and see about providing the links there? If there is a kind of WikiProject Films at that Wikipedia, they may have a different way of addressing external links. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
External link templates are very rarely useful, especially to a site whose content more than 99% of the people here can't understand, so I'd totally agree with deleting that template. Usually, if there are English language reviews etc. available on a film, use those instead, they're much more useful here. The only case where a foreign language link in the external links section is useful is for an official site. Using foreign language content in a reference is fine though, although still not preferable.
On the diff you show above though, I'd still prefer your version, since the links that were readded to it have nothing to do with the film, while your link could at least make a case for itself. - Bobet 14:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Not to mention that auto-translations usually translate everything literally, and the page won't make sense in English. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 16:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, the website isn't much different from IMDb, and they do a fair job of translating it into Fench, German and other languages. We woun't use auto translators. --Steinninn 18:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Coordinator elections are now open for voting

All members are encouraged to vote for and/or leave questions and comments for the candidates on the election page! Voting will close at 23:59 UTC on April 11th. Thanks, Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 06:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

External link on Stanley Kubrick

Hello to the members of the project. Today this link [1] was added to the Stanley Kubrick article by an anon IP. I feel that it does not meet the WP:EL guidelines. However, Ed Fitzgerald wants it attached to the article. Not wishing to edit war I am posting this here so that a consensus can be reached. I will abide by whatever decision is reached. Thank you for your time in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 20:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Seems fairly clear to be self promotion- how is this author a reliable source? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Dan Schneider, who wrote the essay in question, has an extensive resume as an essayist (see here), and there's an article about him in the encyclopedia Dan Schneider. The online arts journal he edits, Cosmoetica, has acquired enough attention -- 20,800 Google Hits; and a mention in the New York Times as "one of the best literary destinations on the Web" -- for it to be considered a legitimate source of arts criticism.

We regularly link to the opinions of critics will much less notability than this - either directly or through sites like Rotten Tomatoes -- and considering that the essay is quite interesting and informative, presenting a take on Kubrick's career and oeuvre that is in some ways very enlightening, it seems to me to be a worthwhile link which should be preserved. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 04:43, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I expanded the section title to make it clear what article the link we're discussing was connected to. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 04:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I've also posted what I hope is a neutrally-worded pointer to this discussion on the Talk:Stanley Kubrick page. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 04:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
As a standalone link in the external links section, it probably is not sufficient to pass WP:EL. However, assuming that the author is notable and the points raised are cogent or original, there's no reason why it couldn't be used as a reference within the text, which would therefore create a link in the footnotes. This may be the better place for it. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 05:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, that's quite a good idea. If consensus goes against me, I will consider that option. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 05:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Category:Fish out of water films up for deletion

Join the discussion here. Lugnuts (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Mummy (1999 film) FAC

Just an open solicitation for comments for The Mummy (1999 film) as it's up for Featured Article Candidacy. All comments are welcome. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

External link on Stanley Kubrick

Hello to the members of the project. Today this link [2] was added to the Stanley Kubrick article by an anon IP. I feel that it does not meet the WP:EL guidelines. However, Ed Fitzgerald wants it attached to the article. Not wishing to edit war I am posting this here so that a consensus can be reached. I will abide by whatever decision is reached. Thank you for your time in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 20:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Seems fairly clear to be self promotion- how is this author a reliable source? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Dan Schneider, who wrote the essay in question, has an extensive resume as an essayist (see here), and there's an article about him in the encyclopedia Dan Schneider. The online arts journal he edits, Cosmoetica, has acquired enough attention -- 20,800 Google Hits; and a mention in the New York Times as "one of the best literary destinations on the Web" -- for it to be considered a legitimate source of arts criticism.

We regularly link to the opinions of critics will much less notability than this - either directly or through sites like Rotten Tomatoes -- and considering that the essay is quite interesting and informative, presenting a take on Kubrick's career and oeuvre that is in some ways very enlightening, it seems to me to be a worthwhile link which should be preserved. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 04:43, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I expanded the section title to make it clear what article the link we're discussing was connected to. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 04:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I've also posted what I hope is a neutrally-worded pointer to this discussion on the Talk:Stanley Kubrick page. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 04:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
As a standalone link in the external links section, it probably is not sufficient to pass WP:EL. However, assuming that the author is notable and the points raised are cogent or original, there's no reason why it couldn't be used as a reference within the text, which would therefore create a link in the footnotes. This may be the better place for it. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 05:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, that's quite a good idea. If consensus goes against me, I will consider that option. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 05:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

A l'intérieur and Inside (2007 film)

I think this is the same film. Could someone that knows about the movie merge this? Taemyr (talk) 00:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

IMDb indicates that it's the same film. I've requested for a history merge to take place to the article that has the English title. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
It didn't require a history merge, just a regular merge (since they were always two separate articles, not the same article cut and pasted into another place). Most of the A l'intérieur article was either pointless cruft (deaths-section) or a copyright violation (plot section, from) so I only merged a little. - Bobet 02:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining. I thought the history merge applied to when editors created the same articles, but under different titles (especially under (film) or (20XX film). So in the future, should it just be a matter of copying and pasting anything useful from the article with the wrong title to the article with the right title, and redirect? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 12:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Category:Fish out of water films up for deletion

Join the discussion here. Lugnuts (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Mummy (1999 film) FAC

Just an open solicitation for comments for The Mummy (1999 film) as it's up for Featured Article Candidacy. All comments are welcome. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

One Hundred and One Dalmatians

There is a disagreement between myself and another editor over the inclusion of one of the puppies in the film in the list of characters. The puppy Cadpig is never named in the film, only in a Disney trivia segment, and appears for only a few frames. A summary of the issue can be found at Talk:One Hundred and One Dalmatians#Inclusion of Cadpig. Some additional neutral opinions from the Film project would be appreciated. Collectonian (talk) 05:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

See my comments on the talk page. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 12:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC).

Coordinator elections update

Following a discussion, the nominations window has been re-opened for the duration of the voting period, and all project members who are interested and feel qualified are cordially invited to nominate themselves for the positions. We currently stand at five candidates for five positions. Thanks! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 01:11, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

What happened to all the A-Class film articles?

According to Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Assessment, there were 28 A-Class film articles in January 2008 but 0 A-Class film articles in February 2008. What happened to all the A-Class film articles? --59.189.58.236 (talk) 02:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Girolamo revised the assessment process, so I'm sure he'll have a detailed answer for you when he comes around. From my recollection, though, the film articles that were A-Class did not actually undergo any kind of assessment. I think an actual assessment has to take place at the assessment department instead of unilaterally determining that a film article is classed this way. I worked on Fight Club, and it used to be A-class. According to Girolamo's edit summary, "A-Class now reserved for project approval - see WP:FILMR to list this film." I'm sure he can explain more about that. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Is there a way to get a list of the 28 film articles which used to be A-Class? I think all 28 should be sent for A-Class Review. I can wait for a detailed answer from Girolamo. --59.189.58.236 (talk) 03:08, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Go here and scroll down to February 4. That should be the brunt of the A-Class articles, since the classes were removed in the same period as Fight Club. You can also find related discussion here. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:17, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Erik has more or less answered the question. Essentially, there was no real criterion for A-Class admission, other than it being assessed so. Following the examples of several other WikiProjects, the class is now reserved for articles which pass a project content review. The idea is that while PR, GA, and FA are good processes for vetting form and style issues and general review, the A-Class review process would specifically be focused on the actual strengths and weakness of the content itself. While the old A-Class articles oftentimes were of good quality, including several GAs, many also clearly were not of the standard. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 05:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Just out of curiously what does pee arr stand for in the previous paragraph? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 17:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Peer review. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 17:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Film series

I'm just curious as to what the proper naming convention of film series' should be. Should it be something like XXXXX (film series) or XXXXX series? ONEder Boy (talk) 14:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The former, I believe, per Talk:Superman (film series)#Requested move last month. Exceptions would be explicitly stated duologies or trilogies (like LOTR). However, another approach would be to establish a XXXXX (franchise) article, like Jurassic Park (franchise), if the article can cover more than just films. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
A more direct answer, actually -- Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films)#Film series articles. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

IMDb trivia

Hello. Is it acceptable to use and cite IMDb trivia in film theme sections when the trivia itself is not discussed in the context of the theme it's being used to support? In other words, if I pick trivia from IMDb's "crazy trivia" page and add it to a theme section - even though the IMDb trivia does not discuss or refer to the theme in any way - can I make the decision to add it to the theme section because I personally feel my judgment is correct? How does the film project handle and use IMDb as a source? Thanks in advance. —Viriditas | Talk 19:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

IMDB is used as a source for film credits. It is rarely used as a source for trivia as, like Wikipedia, anyone can edit it. Unlike Wikipedia, IMDB doesn't ask for references. Anybody can make up something that seems plausable and IMDB won't pull it from the site. IrishGuy talk 19:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for clarifying that IMDb trivia pages are not acceptable. Do you know if the project has created a policy or guideline that makes this clear to newcomers? Also, if you personally came across someone adding it to a GA-Class or FA-Class article, how would you justify your revert? Now for the second part of my question: If I found a self-published film fansite run by a single individual who is not a professional published film critic, but a regular guy who holds a day job and reviews films on his personal website as a hobby, would it be ok to cite this website in the aforementioned theme section instead of the IMDb trivia page, if the hobbyist in question copied the IMDb trivia verbatim, and added it to a separate trivia section at the end of a personal film review, and acknowledged that the material on his website came from IMDb? In other words, if the film project won't let me use IMDb trivia in the theme section of a film article, can I get around this by using a self-published website that uses the material from IMDb instead? —Viriditas | Talk 20:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
It would still be unsourced trivia (as a mere cut and paste from IMDB) and therefore not a reliable source. IrishGuy talk 20:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, but how can I tell if a film review website is reliable or not? Remember, I'm speaking as a newbie. This is my first day. Does the project have a list of film sources generally considered reliable? Are all reviewers listed, on say Rotten Tomatoes, considered reliable sources? —Viriditas | Talk 20:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
The IMDB trivia section can indeed be problematic, but the material there shouldn't be rejected en masse, because quite often the stuff turns out to be good. With some frequency, the material there can be verified through other sources -- sometimes from the TCM "notes" section (which is sourced) or the TCM articles. It's best to "follow your nose" and then verify. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 20:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Right, so if I use a less than reliable source to represent trivia from IMDb, then if the material is important, there is a good chance it is covered by other, more reliable sources, and I should find one to replace the unreliable source. Is that correct? Is this discussed in the MOS for the project? —Viriditas | Talk 20:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Correct. If the trivia is accurate and noteworthy, it will most likely be covered in multiple sourced so just find one or two of the most reliable. This is covered at WP:RS. IrishGuy talk 20:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Wait a minute, you guys are saying that anyone can edit imdb, but if I remember correctly, I have been editing that site, and I go something that told me something like I had to wait in hours or so, maybe reviewing what I added or something. My point is, I have added something to IMDB several months but it still isn't there. Are you sure anyone can edit it? Is there nobody that's reviewing what's being added? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 20:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, but I'm a newbie. I don't understand these things. How can I quickly determine that a website used as a source is reliable? And why are you calling my great edits, "trivia"? What does that mean? I think it is very important that the world know that three-minutes into the credits there's a sound of a burp, and I personally believe this reflects the theme of alcoholism and should be added to the theme section. Even IMDb agrees with me as they covered it on their webpage! Why can't I add this? Who is to say my site is less reliable than another? And. what makes my wonderful material about burping in the credits "trivial"? —Viriditas | Talk 20:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
You used the word "trivia" repeatedly in your initial question. Others followed suit when answering. IrishGuy talk 20:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I am taking this farther than the original question by posing a hypothetical situation faced by members of this project every day. Is the project in agreement that IMDb trivia is not acceptable, and that when unreliable sources use IMDb's trivia, it is still not acceptable? But the question then becomes, how does the project identify RS and trivia? This may seem obvious to you and me, but some editors have trouble understanding it. Since there is a finite list of reliable film sources, it should be easy to generally describe what the project looks for in a film source. It should also be easy to describe what trivia is, how it is used appropriately (or not) and what to do when one finds it in an article. —Viriditas | Talk 20:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Just to clarify, when you say "I'm a newbie" you're stating a hypothetical situation, right? "What if I'm a newbie and..."? Because you've been around since 2004. Just checking. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 21:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, all of my questions are being asked from an ignorant position of a newcomer. I am pretending that I do not know the answers in order to gauge the consensus of the project on these issues and to determine how we can best educate editors about these issues. As you are probably aware, newcomers often begin on Wikipedia by adding trivia to articles. What we want them to do, however, is to think a little bit deeper about the content they are adding; how does it fit into the overall article? Is there a section that would be more appropriate for it? What sources are they using to support their statements? How do we determine reliable film sources? What is trivia and why is it discouraged? Basic questions, but they need to be asked because even long-term editors appear to have trouble with them. —Viriditas | Talk 21:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I think it would be perilous for the project to try and define what is and isn't "trivia". The best "definition" comes from the give and take of posting and removing.

The IMDB section isn't problematic because it's called "trviia", it's problematic because it's not sourced. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 21:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that trivial isn't a good word, as different people look at it a different way. Would reliable be a better word? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 21:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Many pages on IMDb, including trivia, are extremely discouraged by the community, as I have seen in peer reviews and Good or Featured Article nomination processes. This has mostly to do with the fact that much of the information is user-submitted. The only exception would be the cast and crew information, which is basically an electronic copy of a film's credits. (Even then, this information will not be available up to before a film's release, and mish-mash information before availability would not be reliable.) My impression is that there is usually some grain of truth in the trivia found at IMDb. As it has been suggested, it's best to find a reliable source that states the information. (Though not all trivia will be reliably sourced, especially ones based on rumors.) A reliable source should have "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy", and if you've seen IMDb's trivia pages, you know that it can be sloppy. A good place to see discussion about citing IMDb is at WP:CIMDB and WT:CIMDB. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Question for Erik or anyone else: Take a look at this page. Is this a reliable source? The site is run and owned by one person and he uses IMDb trivia and Wikipedia text (attributed) at the bottom of his film reviews in a section called "The Extras". Scroll down to the bottom and you'll see a section called "Is It Worth Staying Through End Credits?" This trivia appears verbatim on the IMDb trivia page here which was first archived on Jan 19, 2007. The self-published website (mutant reviewers) copied the IMDb material a month later and it was archived on Feb 22, 2007. An editor recently added this to the "theme" subsection about "myth and religion". Neither the trivia page nor the film review discuss the topic of myth and religion in relation to this material. The material in question concerns the closing credits of the film. Instead of using unreliable sources that references IMDb trivia as a source, would it be appropriate to just add a "closing credits" section and cite the film as a primary source? After all, we can describe the closing credits just like we can the plot. What would you recommend doing in this situation? Keep in mind, the film review itself is not being used as a source; instead the IMDb trivia section in the film review is being used. Should this material appear in the article? If so, which section and using which sources? —Viriditas | Talk 22:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I would say no that isn't a good source for a review. I good rule of thumb is that if they don't have a page (whether the person or the organization they review for) then they probably shouldn't be used for a review. Now, that being said, there are exceptions to the rule. I don't see MutantReviews.com as one of those exceptions though, as it appears to be nothing more than a basic blog. You have to look to WP:SELFPUB for the idea of "self-published material", which is what Mutant Reviews boils down to.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 22:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I have found a number of examples wherein IMDb trivia notes have been inaccurate. One of the instances that I have come across was a submission that James Dean was approached to play the role of Charles Lindbergh in The Spirit of St. Louis (film). The contributing editor had submitted the note with a reference to the IMDb trivia page. After checking a number of Dean biographies and finding no substantiation for the claim, I submitted a request for further information and sourcing to the IMDB site. To their credit, I received a reply to my query and the original note was removed. It is fair to say that the website managers do not require attribution but they did in this case, react to a challenge in the validity of an item in the trivia page associated with a movie. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 22:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC).
Well, I would say that YouTube isn't reliable either. You could look for interviews with an actor, but there are people that are just pretending to be that guy, how do we know if the guy in the interview of the YouTube video isn't a stranger in disguise? My point being only official sites and sites made by real companies are reliable in my opinion. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 22:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
The Mutantreviews site does provide some information and appears to be reliable in terms of background notes, however, the reviews are strictly opinion pieces that are blog entries and cannot be considered reliable sources. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 22:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC).
Ok, then assume for the moment, that the trivia is accurate, but the sources are unreliable. What if I can't find a reliable source? Wouldn't it be acceptable to cite the film as a primary source, and state my observations of the credits without the interpretations? Are there any GA or FA-Class articles that cite the film as a primary source? My guess is that there are, as I've seen them, but I have trouble recalling their names. If I recall correctly, I recently read a FA-Class anime film article that used the film as a primary source to make claims in the theme section. Obviously, this may not fly on WP:FAR, but it appears to be acceptable. Obviously, the more controversial or interpretive a claim gets, the less you will find it. Thanks for all these great comments. It's amazing how helpful this project is. I wonder if we will ever see these issues addressed in a centralized location, as they keep coming up again and again. —Viriditas | Talk 22:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
In terms of determining validity, without authoritative reference sources, it would be hard to make a case for using IMDb trivia lists. Now, for the other point you have made, although interpretation based on an editor's use of the film as source material is questionable, it may still be appropriate to use the original film to identify sequences, establish a point of contention and other facts. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 23:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC).
Agreed. See my post at the bottom of your most recent comment. Using Erik's new RS to support a screen caption would allow us to also describe the sound of children laughing (lacking RS) in the audio during the capture. This seems like an ideal solution. Comments are welcome. —Viriditas | Talk 03:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Section break

Sorry, late arriving to the page. The source website for the citation explicitly lists the sources of their information in each section. While the site is relaxed, there are a number of reviewers operating within it. It doesn't appear bloggy - any more than any other film review site in their early years. The reviews seem solid and pretty good, and the material that taken from it as source material did not explicitly come from Imdb. Part of the argument was that if a website uses (amongst others) sources from Imdb (or Wikipedia), then its unreliable, which is silly, as every one of the finite sources for film reviews at one point or another utilize both of them. Another argument made was that a self-pub is inherently unreliable. So long as it follows the current guidelines (which I might add the source material does), then the problem with SELFPUB is sidestepped completely. As for the question of sourcing the film directly, I agree that its usually a bad practice, as it opens to the door to interpretative speculation (but not interpretive dance, thank God). That said, let's use the example of Children of Men, a scifi yarn abut infertility and likely human extinction. At the end of the film, the screen fades to black and the words "shantih shantih shantih" appear on the screen and the disembodied sounds of children laughing and shouting are heard over the soundtrack and credits. As this seems (yep, I said seems) to be a calculated move to express how humans don't go extinct, or that children are the source of the upanishad prayer (used again in TS Eliot's poem The Wastelands), I found it odd that most of the reviewers missed mentioning this at all. It was as if all the reviewers made a mad scramble for the exits as soon as the fade to black occurred. As it was an observational part of the film, how do we address it? Note that I am not suggesting that we do any more than noting the occurrence (ie, supplying some reason for its occurrence, etc.). I'd point out that the source in question was the only one to note its occurrence, without interpretation. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 23:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I provided a couple of print sources on the film article's talk page. This is my suggestion: Describe the post-credits appearance objectively, add <ref>Shown after the film's closing credits.</ref> after it, then use the brief descriptions of hope as stated by either of the print sources. The website would not hold up well under criticism, and I think that you have a couple of better alternatives to implement. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I am going to separate my discussion into two sections: use of a secondary source review site and secondly, the use of the IMDB trivia lists. The reviewers on the www.mutantreviewers.com site do not appear to be well-known professionals although the reviews are generally well-written and have interesting commentary. The requirement for a peer-reviewed source or use of authoritative "experts" would not be met by using this site for reviews. Some aspect of verifiability must be present or else any discussion would be considered valid. The IMDb site while in the most case, is an accurate and well-recognized information source has, as is evidenced in the many comments in this present discussion "string" been acknowledged as unreliable. FWIW, as for use of a film as source material, there are unique cases where a reference to the film itself is acceptable especially in regards to an undisputed or uncontentious issue that is clarified through a screen capture or clip review. Bzuk (talk) 23:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC).
Erik, in his usual magnanimous way, has kindly addressed half of the problem stated above with the addition of two reliable sources on the talk page for the film. This leaves the other half of the problem still unsourced, namely, the "laughing of chldren" in the credits. How can we describe (or should we) the trivial observation that one can hear the sound of children laughing in the credits without a reliable source? Let's say we just cite the film itself as Erik and myself suggest; then how do we justify adding this trivia to any section of the article? After all, it would be OR to do so. Since we can all agree that the sound of children laughing pertains to the theme of hope in a world where infertilty rules and the human species is dying out, would it be acceptable to add a screen capture of the "Shantih shantih shantih" to the hope section, and in the caption mention that during these credits, one can hear the sound of children laughing? This seems like a wonderful compromise to an otherwise difficult situation. Erik has provided two RS that support the screen capture, but adding the objective observation of the sound in the credits can be sourced to the film itself. Adding this information to a caption seems ideal as it avoids any problems and is purely descriptive. Moreover, the placement of this information in a caption in the hope/theme section both illustrates the underlying theme and provides an additional description of the audio heard in the capture by using the film as a primary source. Does anyone have any objections to this proposed solution? —Viriditas | Talk 03:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
To address the description of the sound, try to re-visit the scene on DVD with English subtitles on. It may describe the sound. In addition, I don't think that a screen cap is truly necessary. Sources about the phrase is minimal, and I think it's enough to express in prose what the phrase is. There is not much significance in seeing the phrase for itself in a screen cap. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Done and done. It describes the sound right as the credits roll as "Children laughing" or something. (going from memory as I did this months ago. I actually wrote down and recorded the exact time time the audio appears and disappears in the credits for use in the time parameter in {{Cite video}}) The problem with expressing it in prose in the hope section, is that we are treading the OR line. We don't have a source that explicitly associates the sound with the theme. However, you have provided a new RS that describes the screen capture itself, which would allow us to add the sound of children laughing to the caption as a description of the very same scene. Does that make sense? —Viriditas | Talk 04:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I think I understand what you mean. I think, though, that it would be appropriate to provide a pure description of the post-credits display. Is it really questionable to say, "The words 'Shantih shantih shantih' appear on screen, with the voices of laughing children being heard in the background"? We can add the commentary from secondary sources about the phrase and not have any commentary about the laughing children at all. Based on what others say about the context of the phrase or even the rest of the film, readers can draw their own conclusions about what the detail of the laughing children represents. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
But, where do you intend on placing the description of the post-credits in the article? If you placed it in a caption describing a screen capture of the "Shanti" appearing on the screen, it could easily be placed in the hope section since the first half is sourced to that theme ("Cuaron is hopeful. The last thing you see on the screen is 'Shanti, shanti, shanti.'[sic] And he has given us hope in the best film of 2006, one that gives us the hope to keep going, that we'll wake up to the dangers we face.") But the sound of laughing children isn't sourced to the theme of hope, so placing it in prose form outside the context of the screen capture seems to be OR. By keeping the description of the sound in the caption, we are describing the scene, the very image that is presented, rather than illustrating the theme, which we cannot support. What do you think? —Viriditas | Talk 04:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
My thinking had been to describe the relevant part of the primary source -- acceptable per WP:PSTS right before introducing the commentary about the phrase in that part. It's not a part that's essential to the Plot section, but based on the commentary, it's thematically relevant. I think we should exercise a little common sense here; while we could have different takes about the children laughing, the point is that the sound was played at the same time as the phrase was displayed. (Right? Correct me if I'm wrong.) It's an extra detail that the commentary doesn't necessarily cover, but we include detail in Plot sections that may not always have real world applications elsewhere in the article. By the way, can I suggest transferring discussion to Talk:Children of Men? This is probably a little too specific for WT:FILM, and our discussion's getting a little long in the tooth. :) We can hash out the issue there. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
No problem. Feel free to refactor and copy over anything to the talk page. I look forward to seeing you help solve this problem. Thanks again. —Viriditas | Talk 04:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

NOTICE: Discussion has moved to Talk:Children of Men#Commentary on Shantih phrase. Please feel free to share your thoughts there. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Outreach/March 2008 Newsletter

No content got to featured status since the last newsletter? Cirt (talk) 04:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of newsletter I got it to my inbox, even if I requested not to reach it, what's up with that? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 15:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Reliability of award databases disputed

During the FLC of 1928 Summer Olympics medal count, the use of award databases was disputed. This also involves featured lists within the scope of this project, such as Golden Globe Award for Best Director - Motion Picture. If you have an opinion about this issue, please take part in the discussion on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Award databases. – Ilse@ 10:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Lord of the Universe at FAC

Lord of the Universe is up at WP:FAC. Cirt (talk) 08:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Link to FAC discussion for ease of navigation. Steve T • C 08:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Just a general comment, but I still have reservations about the use of a "For Further Reading" section when the references appear to be source material. If the sources are used in research, then a bibliography list could be established. I also have noted that the article is inconsistent in the use of ISO and "popular" dating styles concurrently. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 11:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC).

Plot in Carrie film

In Carrie (2002 film), there was a brief plot summary of the movie, followed by a second plot section containing an insanely long, blow-by-blow plot summary of nearly 2000 words.[3] I tagged it in December, it wasn't addressed, so last week I removed the excessive section and renamed the shorter one, with the idea being to let the shorter one be filled out a bit rather than attempting to hack down the other one. However, since doing so newer editor User:Deane Shafortock, both logged in and as an anon IP, continues adding it back claiming its okay to have two plot summaries. Some project help would be appreciated. Collectonian (talk) 13:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

By the very nature of the term "plot summary," it alludes to a brief accounting and the use of a scene-by-scene description is not only discouraged but it is also non-encyclopedic as it generally is the result of an editor relating verbatim the plot points from the actual film by screening or using direct notation of the scenes. There is no valid reason to give two plot summaries and certainly no reason to allow an overly detailed account to be used. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 13:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC).
I've weighed in at Deane Shafortock's talk page, encouraging the editor to rewrite the plot summary to meet the guidelines. I would caution against the slow edit warring that's apparent in the page history. I don't see any dialog on the film article's talk page, and only one comment on Deane Shafortock's talk page. Try to see if you can't find that middle ground. Ultimately, the best way to sever this Gordian knot would require an editor to be bold and rewrite the 2,000 words into the range stipulated by the guidelines. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Research assistance

Hi, all. I'm not a member of this project, but I think I need some help in where to turn for research. I recently, and somewhat unfortunately, saw and became embarrassingly obsessed with Mulholland Drive. Which only translates into going full-tilt into reading as much as I can on it. I'm just beginning my, err... quest, I suppose; I already have a lot to read, and I have access to a major university library and database, but I've never researched on a movie before. I can search on "Film Indexes Online (Chadwyck-Healey)", but no results for this film, for some reason (am I doing something wrong?). I need impeccable citations, since whatever consumes me must eventually be featured. There are articles at websites associated with David Lynch, but I don't think they are valid sources as they are - I need the original articles, from sources such as Premiere Magazine, Creative Screenwriting, FilmMaker, Guerilla Filmmaker, Film Comment, and others. Anyone who has experience with this - I would appreciate any assistance you can give me. Thanks. --Moni3 (talk) 21:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

First of all, welcome to WikiProject Films! I've been getting accustomed to using a university library and database as well in the past year, so I think I can help you in this regard. First of all, my recommendation is to see if film studies is a major at your university. If it is, there should be a web page that outlines resources for researchers. In addition, you are going to find that not all details about films will come from film-related resources. The background of Mulholland Drive could be detailed by a major newspaper like The New York Times, so consider exploring newspaper databases with the film title as your keywords. Also, if you can, search for "Film Index International" or "International Index to Film Periodicals", where a search could provide you resources to seek out. The next step would be to search for the specific resources that have articles about the film. For example, when I search for Film Comment, there is a link to an "e-journal" that provides full-text articles from the magazine online. Depending on your university, some resources may be fully available or limited to abstracts. This usually depends on the resource's general availability or the time frame that the resource can cover (for example, going back to 1995 only). I'm actually considering writing up a research-focused subpage for this WikiProject, so hopefully I can detail my advice as shared above more fully to editors like you. :) —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Great advice. Does the project have a "research" or "sources" subpage that we can add this to for future use? —Viriditas | Talk 10:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the tips. I'll probably be back to ask a few (hundred) questions. --Moni3 (talk) 12:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Not yet, Viriditas. I'm hoping to work with others as a coordinator to suggest this. I've helped out a few other editors with resources, and I think that there could be some useful tips to share. Using university accounts, libraries, and specific searches on Google. If you have any ideas, you're welcome to share them, too. And Moni3, you're certainly welcome to ask here or on my user talk page. By the way, I saw what you did with To Kill a Mockingbird -- great work! —Erik (talk • contrib) - 12:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I've been thinking about this for about two years. Not just for this project, but for all of them. The ideal approach would be to create a simple flow chart that an editor can view on one screen at an average resolution without scrolling. The chart would document a roadmap to a FA-Class article, in this case, a film article. Each step in the process would contain a link to a subpage of the process. When an editor follows that link ("Create a well-formed stub") a short description of the process appears with a smaller version of the flowchart taking up the top 1/3 of the screen, with the subpage of the process highlighted, and the lower part of the page containing instructions and guidance. I guess you could think of this as a tutorial, but it would be the best way to bring new members up to speed and would be a nice refresher course for long-term editors. —Viriditas | Talk 13:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Erik. I'm very proud of that article. --Moni3 (talk) 13:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Questions: 1. Is the awards page on IMDb for a film a reliable resource, must I track down a better source for all awards a film was nominated for or won?

2. In an article for a novel, if direct quotes from text are used, the page number has to be cited. Is this similar for a film? Is it necessary to cite the film for quotes or context, and how would I do that, if so? --Moni3 (talk) 18:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have found IMDb to be a reliable source for awards data. You can also check the official websites for the Academy Awards, Golden Globes, BAFTA awards, etc. to confirm info.
Re: film quotes, I'm not sure what the guidelines are but I don't think it's common practice to include them unless they are exceedingly famous and perhaps one of the top 100 cited by the American Film Institute. I've seen articles for minor films that quote insignificant lines and I find the practice annoying. If you keep in mind Wikipedia is an encyclopdia, not a collection of trivia, that may help you determine what's relevant enough to include in your articles. MovieMadness (talk) 18:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Gotcha on the encyclopedia, but there is extensive analysis in interpretation and meaning in Lynch films, and I may have to provide quotes for readers.
I recently had to replace IMDb as a source for awards in the FAC for To Kill a Mockingbird, as it seems to be a dubious source, but I don't know what the take is here at WP:Films. --Moni3 (talk) 19:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
IMDb is not a bad place to start research (kind of like Wikipedia), but its information shouldn't be considered definitive. I think that any important awards mentioned at IMDb would be reported elsewhere. Sometimes the awards listed at IMDb are really minor ones, so I think identifying the ones that have been discriminately covered outside IMDb would be the most appropriate.
As for citing the film for quotes, I'm not sure if I've seen this practice before. Perhaps you could just have a reference identifying the particular scene in which the quote is used? My opinion is that editors think it's a bit much to include a time stamp for specific moments. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:10, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Please keep in mind "extensive analysis in interpretation and meaning" constitutes someone's POV and might not be appropriate for Wikipedia. If the source is a known film historian with extensive credentials, he/she may be worth quoting, but I'd hate to see a lot of amateur analysis creeping into articles. MovieMadness (talk) 19:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm avoiding fan sites and sticking only to printed analysis in film journals and books about David Lynch. That the writers are known I don't think is significant. I don't know them because I'm not familiar with film criticism, but their interpretations are valid and from reliable sources, and all I can present is what someone else has printed. I just have to do a bang-up job of presenting these ideas with balance. --Moni3 (talk) 19:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick note to echo the opinion that the IMDB should be used as a jumping off point only, in order to assist the hunt for more reliable citations. Its lists of awards are not immune; I had a case not so long ago where the information was plain wrong. Steve T • C 22:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
How do you know "their interpretations are valid" if you're not familiar with who they are? This is an encylopedia; I'm not sure quoting someone simply because it's "what someone else has printed" is the route to go.
Your reference to Lynch prompted me to look at Mulholland Drive. I haven't taken the time to determine which edits you made, but a quick glance at the edit history shows your contributions have been extensive. The time you have spent on research and organization of facts is admirable but, with all due respect, I think the article reads more like a graduate thesis for film school or a fan tribute to the film and/or Lynch than it does an encyclopedia article. Oddly, there's no cast list. Phrases like "One critic cautioned viewers," "Another review echoed," and "Another pointed out" pop up without identifying who said the statements that follow; even though they are referenced, why not spare the reader the need to scroll down to the references repeatedly by simply stating who made the statement within the text, i.e., "John Smith of the New York Times cautioned viewers . . ." or "Mary Jones of the San Francisco Chronicle echoed . . ."? Critical reactions are scattered over several sections instead of being confined to one. As someone who has not seen the film, I find all of it very confusing, as I think anyone in my position would. The plain and simple facts are lost midst all the analysis. I personally don't think it's encyclopedic at all, but that's just one man's opinion. MovieMadness (talk) 20:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Your comments are noted. I have added a lot of information to the article within the past week. As any article is prior to FA, this is very much a work in progress. Many changes will be made, and more writing has yet to be done. I must disagree however, that there are any plain and simple facts for this film. --Moni3 (talk) 20:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Something that I think should be dealt with

I'm not able to go through every BLP article obviously, but I've noticed quite a few which are arguably written by the subject in hand or at the very least someone associated with them. A lot of the times the articles are of d-list directors, writers, etc that no one really knows about. A lot of these follow these criteria:

  1. The user editing the article is only associated with the article of the person, or editing related articles to include his name. Said user's edits make up the bulk of the article.
  2. The article is a written in a non-neutral, almost advertising tone
  3. The entire article reads like a fluff piece from IMDB, or a full-fledged biography detailing everything but the name of the school.
  4. Little to no reliable sources can be found.

I suppose a good example would be Nick Palumbo, although I've noticed quite a few more. Check out this version [4].

What I'm asking is if those who monitor biographies can give a look into this and try to prune those that fit the criteria.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

You bring up a good point, and I've had experience with that myself. Gerald McMorrow was created like this, and I've fine-tuned it to be the way it is today. I'm not sure how well these could be addressed, since some people believe some information is better than none (assuming that we whittle down the promo and uncited content). Maybe we could outline some quick and easy clean-up steps for articles like these. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 20:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
The issue of an editor actually creating an article about or featuring themselves is a questionable practice. Wikipedia does not recommend that "self-advertising" takes place. These statements may be overly glib but I believe, factual. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 12:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC).
You may want to also take this to Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 15:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Homerun (film)'s GA nomination currently on hold; input appreciated.

Homerun (film)'s GA nomination was placed on hold by Collectonian, who appears to be an inexperienced reviewer. I disagree with some of his comments. Thus the review would benefit from input from others who are familiar with film articles, the GA criteria or both. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 14:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

In reviewing Collectonian's GA commentary, I agree with most of your responses to the points made. Some of the review concerns some very minor issues. Would you like another appraisal? FWIW Bzuk (talk) 14:32, 5 April 2008 (UTC).
Go ahead and reply on the talk page, stating you agree with me, but do not give another review or bite Collectonian. I hope that Collectonian, an inexperienced reviewer, will learn from this review and become a better reviewer (while I become a better article writer). --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 15:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
No biting considered, nor was another review required but I considered giving a more fulsome description of my comments. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 23:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC).

Promotion of A Hard Day's Night (film)

Just to inform you that this has now been assessed as a Good Article. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 20:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Jackie Chan film template for deletion

The Jackie Chan filmography template is up for deletion. Please add your comments to the discussion here. Lugnuts (talk) 11:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Juno needs Production help

Anyone interested in helping out with Juno? I'm trying to kickstart the Casting section -- I just added some real world info about the casting and production process for two actors, but I don't have time right now to do the whole section for the main cast. There's an editor who seems to want to delete the section (see talk), but I'd like to see this important recent film's page grow, particularly with the help of other members of this project. Thanks, Melty girl (talk) 17:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I went through my Google Alerts and provided some headlines on the talk page. These are limited to the ones available online, so I'm sure there are more to be found from print sources. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 17:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I added a very brief production note about the Canadian aspect of the film. FWIW, it is a very quick and rough submission; feel free to revise it. Bzuk (talk) 18:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC).
Thanks, y'all. Erik, the sources are great -- anyone have time to pull out the casting info and draft some prose? The talk section I linked to above also has a link to a source list. Bzuk, I did revise a bit, primarily because the Genie Awards thing was already described in the Awards section. --Melty girl (talk) 20:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Chapter titles

Please see The Secret of Treasure Island - is it appropriate to list out all the Chapter titles in movie serial articles? I was under the impression that this was generally inappropriate, as is listing out a book's table of contents in the article about the book - as opposed to a paragraph/prose discussion, accompanied by a plot summary. Cirt (talk)

I could not find a specific mention of the use of chapter or episode titles in the MoS guide for films. Although checking the list of movie serial articles, this listing is predominantly used. Can these not be considered as part of a series, then the chapter titles are appropriate? In checking the article, the listing is not dominant nor distracting; users can see the chapters in the order of appearance which may be of use in understanding the development of the serial. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 12:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC).
Okay, thanks for commenting, will wait to here what others think in that case, and won't remove that subsection in the meantime. Cirt (talk) 12:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
It would seem to be much more like listing out the individual episodes titles of a TV series like Waking the Dead than like listing the chapters of a book. I would agree that they can be left unless a consensus is reached against them. MarnetteD | Talk 12:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Good points all, okay will keep it in, thanks. Cirt (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally if anyone comes across any other good WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources to use in The Secret of Treasure Island, I'd greatly appreciate it. Cirt (talk) 13:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Links to hulu

I've been wasting plenty of time at http://www.hulu.com recently, and I'm wondering: should a link be placed to hulu for those full-length movies that are currently on the site? In my opinion, it would definitely serve as a useful resource for readers - being directed to an official site where you can watch the whole movie. Other thoughts? BuddingJournalist 22:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Sure, it's a nice idea for the WP:EL section of articles. Cirt (talk) 22:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Not a bad website! I was wondering, though, how is Hulu.com able to do this? Are there any competing websites that we should consider? Otherwise, it seems like a nice content link to the full-length movies. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Isn't it a great resource? So Hulu is basically an official collaboration by a multitude of production companies (NBC and FOX I know are partners on it). And like seemingly everything free on the Internet these days, they're hoping to use ad revenue to make money (although if you install Adblock on Firefox, you skip the commercials!). I don't think there are any other competing sites, since presumably, the companies want total control over their content, but some other production companies not involved in Hulu do host their own full length streaming videos (for example ABC). BuddingJournalist 22:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, it seems like a decent link to implement for the ones that have full-length movies available. I'd like to hear others' thoughts about this, though, before taking any kind of action. Just in case we may be overlooking any kind of issue with this kind of link. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I was on my way to creating a template a la T:IMdB for this, but I discovered it has already been created: Template:Hulu. It's transcluded on a few articles so far. BuddingJournalist 22:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
How about that. Before we go any further, let's make sure that we have a general consensus for this. I've seen a lot of external links indiscriminately solicited across film articles, so I want to make sure if someone brings up the issue of "Why Hulu and not my website", we can substantiate why. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I brought it up here first before going mad and inserting hulu links everywhere ;). I guess one argument for its inclusion is that this is an "official" site sponsored by the production companies of the content. BuddingJournalist 23:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Seems fine if it is sponsored by the production companies. Cirt (talk) 23:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
It looks like an interesting resource but unfortunately it is only able to be accessed from the United States, people in Canada cannot use the site. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 23:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC).
That's definitely an issue. Perhaps we can tweak the existing template to have a (United States only) disclaimer? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Probably a good idea. That's unfortunate for those outside the US. Their FAQ indicates that they're waiting to clear the rights worldwide, so there's hope for you Canadians yet! :) Of course, you could try a US proxy server, although I'm not sure if that would work. BuddingJournalist 23:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Acordding to the hulu article this site has good quality videos related to television. Just wondering, do they do it legally? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, as noted above, it is an "official" website and is operated as a joint venture of the production companies of the various TV shows/movies that are featured there. BuddingJournalist 00:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article candidate - Bezhin Meadow

Hello, please take a look at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bezhin Meadow, for Bezhin Meadow, a 1937 Soviet film. Any assistance you can offer to help finish the article off, or with suggestions for the FAC, would be appreciated. Thanks! Lawrence § t/e 16:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Auto archive

I assume this is broken? Lugnuts (talk) 17:28, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, it would seem to be. I've done some manual archiving. I'm wondering if it was the existance of a blacklisted link that was breaking it. I'll do a little more archiving and hopefully the bot will get back to business. Collectonian (talk) 17:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
That seems to have fixed it. Yay. Collectonian (talk) 07:25, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Awesome! It did seem to be getting a bit long in the tooth, so thanks for fixing it! —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep, thanks for sorting that out! Lugnuts (talk) 14:11, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:No Screenshot.svg

Does the Wikiproject have any need for ? If not, please delete. Thanks. GregManninLB (talk) 17:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Image placeholders Lugnuts (talk) 17:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, there is a |needs-image= attribute in Template:Film, which seems a little more subtle. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Night Skies

Anyone heard of this and/or can reference it? Has Spielberg had a biography written about him (that would mention it surely...Cheers,